Can the committee please explain why the competition on Saturday 24th Jan did not contribute to the winter league? I can only assume because of the heavy frost, they deemed the course unplayable Yet the previous week when the early conditions were fine and the later players had to endure torrential rain and gale force winds, the committee deemed these weather conditions fine and let the scores be included towards the Winter League, even know, at least 10 of the last groups must of decided the course was unplayable and did not participate. Surely the Committee can understand why people are questioning the consistency in some of the decision making.
In reply to the question let me explain the decision making process on behalf of Match & Handicap. On Saturday 24th Jan 2009 due to the frost the Centre did not open the course until after 9am, by which time over an hours play was lost. The decision for the scores not to count towards the Winter League was then taken because of the concern members playing late afternoon would not be able to complete their round before the loss of daylight. You may remember on the 6th Dec 2008 we had similar conditions first thing in the morning. In this instance two 9 holes courses were used to enable everyone to complete their round and so the scores counted towards the Winter League. Unfortunately as only holes 4 to 16 were open on Saturday 24th, we were unable to play a second 9 hole course. On both these occasions the early starters had to contend with frozen greens. On Saturday 17th Jan 2009 weather conditions did deteriorate in the afternoon but the competition was not called off and as far as we are aware the course was not closed. If either of these two conditions had occurred then the scores would not have counted if 75% of the competing members had been unable to complete their round. In hindsight Match and Handicap could have considered calling the competition off and will in the future endeavour to react more quickly.
There are many golfers who play on a Sunday morning who are unable to play on Saturdays but would love to be part of the Winter League. Many other clubs run winter leagues over a Sat and a Sun, why can Greenacres not do this also so that more of their members can be included in club events. I know there is a Sunday comp if we decide to play but that is not winter league and many of us would love to get invloved more.
I posted a comment here a month and a half ago and so far there has been no response. I feel a month and a half is a sufficient time to allow for a response, I would still like to know why the Winter league cannot be run over a whole weekend to allow all its members to become involved, during the winter there are not even enough times to allow members to play because we have so many members, surely this would be a good solution for the club??? I look forward to hearing your response (hopefully)
Glenn the arrangements for this year's Winter League competition have not been finalised and your comments had already noted for discussion.
Although our aim is not to exclude members from playing, I would like your thoughts on the following:
Last year the Winter League was played over various different 9 hole courses, some of which are played out of sequence. As all 18 holes were open on a Sunday we could not have members playing the course out of sequence without the course being closed for the time it would take members to play the 9 holes. Assuming Stephen / Colin agree to giving us the tee times, what happens if the course is closed for 2 hours due to frost / ice? Do we still get our allocation of tee times before the member / visitors who want to play on a Sunday can get out?
There are members who play both a Saturday and Sunday, would they not expect us to continue to run the 'normal' Sunday competition?
There were times when the course was open on a Saturday but closed on a Sunday which means the members playing on a Sunday wouldn't have a counting score for that week. Similarly if the course was closed on a Saturday and open on a Sunday we would have a even larger number of members who wouldn't have a score recorded for that week. How do we ensure every member entered into the Winter League completes the same number of rounds under similar conditions?
Do the members entered into the Winter League compete for the prizes on a Saturday? If so then the competition needs to be left open on the computer for both days, so what stops members picking what day they play to gain advantage due to the weather conditions.
We had 230 members enter the Winter League last year and we still had tee times available. How many more members would enter if the competition was played over the whole weekend?
Many thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments. I fully appreciate where you are coming from, I am on the committee of another club (not golf related) and I know you cannot keep everyone happy all the time. I wrote my comments from my own selfish point of view (also taking account of comments I have heard from other members), I would love to be involved in the club more but just cant make it on Saturdays. I will not profess to be an expert but I will offer my own simplistic views on the points you have made. 1 - Can the course not remain open as it is? guests / members can go out on a Sunday morning and play as they do at the moment? Members who are playing as part of the winter league can also go out and play the 18 holes as normal however only the 9 holes selected for the league are the holes that count? 2 - Could you not run both the Winter league and the Sunday Competition on a Sunday? If members are playing in the League then they will already have signed up for that, and an appropriate day ie League on a Sat or Sun. If they play the League on a Sat then they could play the Sunday comp as they do at the moment. When it comes to entering scores can the computer not have options on the main screen, ie enter score for 1- Winter League 2 - Sunday Stableford etc 3 - If the course is open on a Sat but not a Sunday, then the following week could all 18 holes not count towards the league (ie the 2x 9 hole courses on one day) If the course is closed on a Sat then the league is cancelled for that week, I would see that as fair as it would be decided in advance of the Sunday. Also I know people will comment about the rounds not being played on similar conditions if they are split over 2 days or in fact 2 weeks as we have discussed. I would say, that is life!! a competition played on one day is not played over all similar conditions. I play at 7.00am most Sundays, I have seen days where I have played the competition in rain, hail, winds etc early in the morning, by 2.00pm the same day, the sun is splitting the trees and the wind has completely dissappeared. It happens, even on the pro tour, unfortunately we just have to suck it up, one week conditions may be for you, the next it could be against. Again, not everyone will be happy all the time. ......continued on another comment
contined from previous comment... 4 - If members enter the Winter League, they should sign up for what day they will be playing, they cannot chop and change at short notice however they may be able to change days if they give a weeks notice? Like Sat comps, members have a slot which they hold on to all year, I would not propose to change that. Sunday players just sign up each week as they do at the minute. If you were to run the Winter League on a Sunday as well you are providing an additional benefit for the members, I would say that if it was run like that from the start no one can complain?? 5 - How many more members would enter? I have no idea, everyone I have spoke to on a Sunday have said they would love to play, however I know people love to want what they cant have. If you were prepared to consider running the League on a Sunday you could put a sign up sheet in the reception just to guage the interest. If interest was low then I can hardly complain about you not running it but if interest was high then at least the club would know that it is worth considdering, even if not for this year then maybe for next year? I understand that I have waffled quite a lot here, I hope it all makes sense. I hope I am not coming accross as a moan, I am very fond of our club, I only want it to move forward for the benefit of all and I would selfishly love to get more involved. The Winter League is a fantastic thing and I would love to be included along with many others. If you would like to meet up to discuss anything I am very happy to do so. I know that e-mails back and forth can sometimes loose content or intentions. If you would like to meet up leave a message for me at reception and I will contact you, if you leave it with Gordie he will know me ok. Once again, many thanks for your time. I look forward to your further comments. Regards
The 28 of September is just over 4 months, (18weeks exactly today) ago. I, along with most of the general public would feel this is a more than ample amount of time to expect a reply. I understand that things take time when working in committees, however there has not even been an acknowledgment to my previous correspondance, something even saying we will take a look at it and come back to you. This is an absolut disgrace, the club should be ashamed of themselves, what is the point in having this facility if it is just ignored or not used????? It goes a long way to prove that the club committee (who are supposed to be there to work for its members) dont really give a monkeys what its members are asking. I believe I responded to your last comments with a carefully considdered proposal, I took a lot of time out of my day to formulate a respectful reply, I undestand there are other factors for you to consider, however the least I expect is the same respect to be returned, I am very unimpressed!!!!! and I do not speak only for myself!!
Thanks for your response, I had not seen your reply in the course comments box as I have just been checking the winter league forum. I look forward to hearing what your final decisions are for the winter league next year, as I said there would be more interested in playing on a Sunday other than myself, unfortunately we have lost a lot of members recently due to one reason or another.
Old Forum Comment - Dated Jan 2009
ReplyDeleteCan the committee please explain why the competition on Saturday 24th Jan did not contribute to the winter league? I can only assume because of the heavy frost, they deemed the course unplayable Yet the previous week when the early conditions were fine and the later players had to endure torrential rain and gale force winds, the committee deemed these weather conditions fine and let the scores be included towards the Winter League, even know, at least 10 of the last groups must of decided the course was unplayable and did not participate. Surely the Committee can understand why people are questioning the consistency in some of the decision making.
Old Forum Comment - Dated Jan 2009
ReplyDeleteIn reply to the question let me explain the decision making process on behalf of Match & Handicap. On Saturday 24th Jan 2009 due to the frost the Centre did not open the course until after 9am, by which time over an hours play was lost. The decision for the scores not to count towards the Winter League was then taken because of the concern members playing late afternoon would not be able to complete their round before the loss of daylight. You may remember on the 6th Dec 2008 we had similar conditions first thing in the morning. In this instance two 9 holes courses were used to enable everyone to complete their round and so the scores counted towards the Winter League. Unfortunately as only holes 4 to 16 were open on Saturday 24th, we were unable to play a second 9 hole course. On both these occasions the early starters had to contend with frozen greens. On Saturday 17th Jan 2009 weather conditions did deteriorate in the afternoon but the competition was not called off and as far as we are aware the course was not closed. If either of these two conditions had occurred then the scores would not have counted if 75% of the competing members had been unable to complete their round. In hindsight Match and Handicap could have considered calling the competition off and will in the future endeavour to react more quickly.
Hi there,
ReplyDeleteThere are many golfers who play on a Sunday morning who are unable to play on Saturdays but would love to be part of the Winter League. Many other clubs run winter leagues over a Sat and a Sun, why can Greenacres not do this also so that more of their members can be included in club events. I know there is a Sunday comp if we decide to play but that is not winter league and many of us would love to get invloved more.
Thanks
Glenn Smart
Hi again,
ReplyDeleteI posted a comment here a month and a half ago and so far there has been no response. I feel a month and a half is a sufficient time to allow for a response, I would still like to know why the Winter league cannot be run over a whole weekend to allow all its members to become involved, during the winter there are not even enough times to allow members to play because we have so many members, surely this would be a good solution for the club??? I look forward to hearing your response (hopefully)
Glenn the arrangements for this year's Winter League competition have not been finalised and your comments had already noted for discussion.
ReplyDeleteAlthough our aim is not to exclude members from playing, I would like your thoughts on the following:
Last year the Winter League was played over various different 9 hole courses, some of which are played out of sequence. As all 18 holes were open on a Sunday we could not have members playing the course out of sequence without the course being closed for the time it would take members to play the 9 holes. Assuming Stephen / Colin agree to giving us the tee times, what happens if the course is closed for 2 hours due to frost / ice? Do we still get our allocation of tee times before the member / visitors who want to play on a Sunday can get out?
There are members who play both a Saturday and Sunday, would they not expect us to continue to run the 'normal' Sunday competition?
There were times when the course was open on a Saturday but closed on a Sunday which means the members playing on a Sunday wouldn't have a counting score for that week. Similarly if the course was closed on a Saturday and open on a Sunday we would have a even larger number of members who wouldn't have a score recorded for that week. How do we ensure every member entered into the Winter League completes the same number of rounds under similar conditions?
Do the members entered into the Winter League compete for the prizes on a Saturday? If so then the competition needs to be left open on the computer for both days, so what stops members picking what day they play to gain advantage due to the weather conditions.
We had 230 members enter the Winter League last year and we still had tee times available. How many more members would enter if the competition was played over the whole weekend?
Hi again,
ReplyDeleteMany thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments. I fully appreciate where you are coming from, I am on the committee of another club (not golf related) and I know you cannot keep everyone happy all the time. I wrote my comments from my own selfish point of view (also taking account of comments I have heard from other members), I would love to be involved in the club more but just cant make it on Saturdays. I will not profess to be an expert but I will offer my own simplistic views on the points you have made.
1 - Can the course not remain open as it is? guests / members can go out on a Sunday morning and play as they do at the moment? Members who are playing as part of the winter league can also go out and play the 18 holes as normal however only the 9 holes selected for the league are the holes that count?
2 - Could you not run both the Winter league and the Sunday Competition on a Sunday? If members are playing in the League then they will already have signed up for that, and an appropriate day ie League on a Sat or Sun. If they play the League on a Sat then they could play the Sunday comp as they do at the moment. When it comes to entering scores can the computer not have options on the main screen, ie enter score for 1- Winter League 2 - Sunday Stableford etc
3 - If the course is open on a Sat but not a Sunday, then the following week could all 18 holes not count towards the league (ie the 2x 9 hole courses on one day) If the course is closed on a Sat then the league is cancelled for that week, I would see that as fair as it would be decided in advance of the Sunday. Also I know people will comment about the rounds not being played on similar conditions if they are split over 2 days or in fact 2 weeks as we have discussed. I would say, that is life!! a competition played on one day is not played over all similar conditions. I play at 7.00am most Sundays, I have seen days where I have played the competition in rain, hail, winds etc early in the morning, by 2.00pm the same day, the sun is splitting the trees and the wind has completely dissappeared. It happens, even on the pro tour, unfortunately we just have to suck it up, one week conditions may be for you, the next it could be against. Again, not everyone will be happy all the time.
......continued on another comment
contined from previous comment...
ReplyDelete4 - If members enter the Winter League, they should sign up for what day they will be playing, they cannot chop and change at short notice however they may be able to change days if they give a weeks notice? Like Sat comps, members have a slot which they hold on to all year, I would not propose to change that. Sunday players just sign up each week as they do at the minute. If you were to run the Winter League on a Sunday as well you are providing an additional benefit for the members, I would say that if it was run like that from the start no one can complain??
5 - How many more members would enter? I have no idea, everyone I have spoke to on a Sunday have said they would love to play, however I know people love to want what they cant have. If you were prepared to consider running the League on a Sunday you could put a sign up sheet in the reception just to guage the interest. If interest was low then I can hardly complain about you not running it but if interest was high then at least the club would know that it is worth considdering, even if not for this year then maybe for next year?
I understand that I have waffled quite a lot here, I hope it all makes sense. I hope I am not coming accross as a moan, I am very fond of our club, I only want it to move forward for the benefit of all and I would selfishly love to get more involved. The Winter League is a fantastic thing and I would love to be included along with many others.
If you would like to meet up to discuss anything I am very happy to do so. I know that e-mails back and forth can sometimes loose content or intentions. If you would like to meet up leave a message for me at reception and I will contact you, if you leave it with Gordie he will know me ok.
Once again, many thanks for your time. I look forward to your further comments.
Regards
Glenn Smart
The 28 of September is just over 4 months, (18weeks exactly today) ago. I, along with most of the general public would feel this is a more than ample amount of time to expect a reply. I understand that things take time when working in committees, however there has not even been an acknowledgment to my previous correspondance, something even saying we will take a look at it and come back to you. This is an absolut disgrace, the club should be ashamed of themselves, what is the point in having this facility if it is just ignored or not used????? It goes a long way to prove that the club committee (who are supposed to be there to work for its members) dont really give a monkeys what its members are asking. I believe I responded to your last comments with a carefully considdered proposal, I took a lot of time out of my day to formulate a respectful reply, I undestand there are other factors for you to consider, however the least I expect is the same respect to be returned, I am very unimpressed!!!!! and I do not speak only for myself!!
ReplyDeletePlease see reply posted within course comments on the 5th Feb 2011.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your response, I had not seen your reply in the course comments box as I have just been checking the winter league forum. I look forward to hearing what your final decisions are for the winter league next year, as I said there would be more interested in playing on a Sunday other than myself, unfortunately we have lost a lot of members recently due to one reason or another.
ReplyDelete